MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

All ESP8266 boards running MicroPython.
Official boards are the Adafruit Huzzah and Feather boards.
Target audience: MicroPython users with an ESP8266 board.
pfalcon
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by pfalcon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:31 am

platforma wrote:I've got a generic question about the kickstarter: The follower and the driver rewards give access to the alpha/beta version of the firmware. With the stretch goal the source is now being released to backers right after the campaign has finished. Isn't that the same as the access to alpha, since one will be able to compile the code themselves? Or it is meant the binary alpha/beta versions distributed directly to backers?
Here's my take on answering this question: Going for software-only campaign was a tough choice. We had to consider different outcomes, so we figured what would be minimal amount allowing us to support port for a reasonable time (at least a year), and offered that as a basic award - support for a year, regardless of how successful campaign is (as long as we collected basic goal). But it was also clear from the outset that the only way the project mat become really successful is by it becoming truly community project, as we need hundreds and hundreds of people to participate. It's fair to say that project has become wildly successful, and the reason why it became wildly successful and not just successful is thanks to people who selected Follower and Driver awards, not just basic awards offered. And it's my big hope that they selected these rewards as active members of the community, who may and interested to do more, not to just get access to the firmware while others can't.

So right, with the source release, everyone will be able to build firmware from source - and it's big win which everyone hopefully wanted to. If every 10th backer will regularly build from source, then we potentially have 70+ people who'll be ready to contribute bugfixes and new features (the real percentage will be of course lower). But next 2 months after the source release, the esp8266 port will be in great flux. We'll make "point" releases specifically for early access users, and feedback from them will be the highest priority we process (they effectively will have their say on development during these 2 months - until first "general availability" release).

We also consider other benefits for Followers/Drivers, e.g. more votes per person in module "election" process (please stay tuned for details on that, it's enough to say that we can't have complete votes until all backers are in, i.e. the campaign is finished, so we aren't hasting with that, but some details to follow soon). And please don't be too shy to mention that you're Driver/Follower in github bugreports - that'll help us to set priorities right ;-).
Awesome MicroPython list
Pycopy - A better MicroPython https://github.com/pfalcon/micropython
MicroPython standard library for all ports and forks - https://github.com/pfalcon/micropython-lib
More up to date docs - http://pycopy.readthedocs.io/

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platforma
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by platforma » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:21 am

Thanks for your reply pfalcon. I do realise the benefits of being a driver/follower and giving their contribution back to the community actively, I just had a thought that people might be put off by the fact that they will now get their hands on the source regardless for which option they go for and will shy away from contributions. It is just a thought and not criticism by any means, I thought I'd voice it here. Very much looking forward to "voting" options on modules!

As always great work on this project!

Comedicles
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by Comedicles » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:21 pm

I have employees ready to contribute. Is this project on a new repo? We can't see where to get involved.

I interrupted an Issue thread on the emails and was shut down for interrupting, but with no answer. Note: There is nothing wrong with saying "don't interrupt a thread and go HERE for what you need". Pretty discouraging response. Do I really need to ask my colleagues to deal with this? I was going for the OEM Backer level. Seriously reconsidering. Maybe I just picked a bad week to stop smoking crack, but this low information "communication" really pissed me off. I want to GIVE $1000 and high talent man-hours and I get the shut up and go away?

This is a new forum account. My original is gone or I recorded name/PW wrong last year. I'm Charlie Springer, CEO of ARMWorks LLC and a backer of the first MicroPython. We have been big on Debian and Python/PyQt, etc on our ARM/Linux boards for years.

One of our guys has the UART setup at boot all figured out (RTS CTS and all that) for ESP8266 in case that is any use. He just wants to know where to share it and get involved.

pfalcon
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by pfalcon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:31 pm

Comedicles wrote:I have employees ready to contribute. Is this project on a new repo? We can't see where to get involved.
Please read the description of the ESP8266 Kickstarter campaign at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/21 ... y-easy-iot , it explains that the source code will be made available after the campaign end (and conditions for that). For reference, these are standard rules for any Kickstarter campaign - any rewards get shipped not before the campaign (crowdfunding phase of it) ends. And many campaigns still have "development phase" after crowdfunding per se. Ours is not exception - planned release of new ESP8266 port is 2 months after the campaign end (even though by virtue of community involvement, we achieved stretch goal of releasing source right after the campaign end - which should make the port higher-quality to the time of GA release and beyond).
I interrupted an Issue thread on the emails and was shut down for interrupting, but with no answer. Note: There is nothing wrong with saying "don't interrupt a thread and go HERE for what you need". Pretty discouraging response.
If you're coming from business background, it shouldn't surprise you that there're rules to follow. We're much easier on rules than a typical business, but at the same time, many people contribute to the project coming from their dayjobs, in the little time they have from other aspects of real life. So, excuse terseness of some responses. For reference, a response you received from another project contributor started with "Please" and indeed provided instruction how to do it better, so I don't see anything discouraging there.
Do I really need to ask my colleagues to deal with this?
If your colleagues have experience contributing to projects via Github, no special asking should be needed. Otherwise, some introduction to how open-source crowd-development sites like Github work may be helpful. But again, you'll find it very similar to a typical business setting: there're separate tickets for separate issues/reports/requests, mixing up is to be avoided, there's peer review for changes, etc., etc.
I was going for the OEM Backer level. Seriously reconsidering. Maybe I just picked a bad week to stop smoking crack, but this low information "communication" really pissed me off. I want to GIVE $1000 and high talent man-hours and I get the shut up and go away?
You're very welcome to contribute. As the description of that pledge suggests, it's better to contact the campaign owner directly to negotiate conditions, and make sure that expectation are set right. Our expectation is that every contributor, regardless of pledge level, will follow basic ticket management principles which are the same for millions projects running on Github or elsewhere. We definitely don't want anyone to go away frustrated.
This is a new forum account. My original is gone or I recorded name/PW wrong last year.
I'm Charlie Springer, CEO of ARMWorks LLC and a backer of the first MicroPython. We have been big on Debian and Python/PyQt, etc on our ARM/Linux boards for years.
Nice to meat you, Charlie, welcome to MicroPython community! I'm Paul Sokolovsky, a MicroPython developer, member of the team of ESP8266 Kickstarter.
One of our guys has the UART setup at boot all figured out (RTS CTS and all that) for ESP8266 in case that is any use. He just wants to know where to share it and get involved.
One good way to do that, which works for almost any kind of project, is to create a project on Github and push source code and/or docs there (please think about the license!). Then it would be helpful to let other folks know by making a blog post with some details, or just posting on dedicated resources like esp8266.com. I myself would be interested to read such blog post.


Thanks!
Awesome MicroPython list
Pycopy - A better MicroPython https://github.com/pfalcon/micropython
MicroPython standard library for all ports and forks - https://github.com/pfalcon/micropython-lib
More up to date docs - http://pycopy.readthedocs.io/

Comedicles
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by Comedicles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:29 am

Please read the description of the ESP8266 Kickstarter campaign at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/21 ... y-easy-iot , it explains that the source code will be made available after the campaign end (and conditions for that). For reference, these are standard rules for any Kickstarter campaign - any rewards get shipped not before the campaign (crowdfunding phase of it) ends. And many campaigns still have "development phase" after crowdfunding per se. Ours is not exception - planned release of new ESP8266 port is 2 months after the campaign end (even though by virtue of community involvement, we achieved stretch goal of releasing source right after the campaign end - which should make the port higher-quality to the time of GA release and beyond).
My mistake. I could have sworn I was getting the issue emails during the first MicroPython campaign and made a few suggestions. Are you saying Kickstarter has a rule that no outside contributors can clone the code and do pull requests until after the campaign ends?

pfalcon
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by pfalcon » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:36 am

Comedicles wrote: My mistake. I could have sworn I was getting the issue emails during the first MicroPython campaign and made a few suggestions.
Most likely those were not "issue emails", but campaign update emails from Kickstarter. The same is true for the current campaign (or any other Kickstarter campaign for that matter). Additionally, there's a "Comments" section on the campaign page, where backers can leave their suggestions. Please review "From" and "Subject" lines of an email - it should be pretty clear from which service/person each came. We very welcome even wild ideas and brainstorming in KS comments, but Github is technical and process-oriented site, so it's very helpful to follow guidelines when using it.
Are you saying Kickstarter has a rule that no outside contributors can clone the code and do pull requests until after the campaign ends?
Not in writing, as far as I know, but doing it otherwise usually doesn't make much sense. Consider for example that your company announced that you're working on a product to be released in few months. And next day a guy comes asking: "Can I have it now?". The obvious answer would be "No, please wait until it's available on the market".
Awesome MicroPython list
Pycopy - A better MicroPython https://github.com/pfalcon/micropython
MicroPython standard library for all ports and forks - https://github.com/pfalcon/micropython-lib
More up to date docs - http://pycopy.readthedocs.io/

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kfricke
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by kfricke » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:21 pm

Paul on the KS comments wrote:... MQTT is still novel protocol. ...
MQTT was "invented" in 1999 and is in OASIS standardization since 2013. I'd call it far more stable than most IoT ideas and it is outlasting all commercial cloud APIs reinventions since then.

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kfricke
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by kfricke » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:42 pm

Regarding one tiny piece of the 15k goal on the KS campaign... the TSL2561 illumination sensor...

I have just implemented the basics for the TSL2561 sensor on my pyboard (simple lux calculation, no toys like interrupts and so on). Is the ESP8266 port really going to fully implement floating point arithmetic? I do still respectfully doubt this, or maybe just think that a good MicroPython "driver" should support the major platforms, including the floating-point-less WiPy.

But because not having studied CS and especially floating point arithmetics for several semesters, I personally am a little limited on implementing integer only algorithms for the sensor without throwing away all of it's accuracy (there is a "pow(foo, 1.4)" part in the lux calculation :roll: ).

So if you can compensate my faults or just need me for testing your implementations of drivers for this sensor on the ESP8266 or most other MicroPython platforms, I am more than willing to help with this little bit of that goal. And of course i will soon publish my WIP state of the source code under the MIT license on GitHub (edit: done).

pfalcon
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by pfalcon » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:42 pm

kfricke wrote:
Paul on the KS comments wrote:... MQTT is still novel protocol. ...
MQTT was "invented" in 1999
Right, a year after I invented PCDP (Paul's cool device protocol) - we used it to communicate with a paging transceiver
running on a bare-metal ms-dos box. Cool times...
and is in OASIS standardization since 2013.
That makes it very, very young protocol. Compare that to establishment dates for protocols mentioned in the update you quote - SMTP, HTTP, etc. And again, what percentage of Internet hosts run MQTT, comparing to the protocols above.
I'd call it far more stable than most IoT ideas and it is outlasting all commercial cloud APIs reinventions since then.
I agree. But I'm in this "protocols" and "standards" business for decades and firmly learned that the best thing about standards is that there're so many of them. But then, there're protocols which are just there and (already) generally accepted. Wanna example? I looked at Cosm, umm, Pachube, umm, Xively integration, in particular because it supports MQTT too. And what I see? There's MQTT protocol framing, but what data you put inside? It's the same request body as to be put in their REST API. But wait, why then I need MQTT if I can use HTTP right away, with already existing and well-known modules? So that's why asking people how they really use MQTT and what benefits they see, or it's just a buzzword du jour to be replaced by next vendor who puts few millions in their ads campaign.

(Hope that didn't sound too conservative - I'm really looking forward to implementing MQTT, my gripe is that guys behind it could have done earlier and better job at promoting it and establishing toolset, instead of letting community drown in competing standard, any of which is too early to call a winner yet).
Awesome MicroPython list
Pycopy - A better MicroPython https://github.com/pfalcon/micropython
MicroPython standard library for all ports and forks - https://github.com/pfalcon/micropython-lib
More up to date docs - http://pycopy.readthedocs.io/

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pythoncoder
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Re: MicroPython on ESP8266 Kickstarter

Post by pythoncoder » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:02 am

@kfricke The datasheet for the TLS2561 tells you how to perform the Lux calculation using integer arithmetic https://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/TSL2561.pdf - see the final section "Simplified Lux Calculation". It uses a piecewise linear approximation for the pow() function. Translating the C to Python should be straightforward.
Peter Hinch

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