Target audience for MicroPython?

General discussions and questions abound development of code with MicroPython that is not hardware specific.
Target audience: MicroPython Users.
bitninja
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:09 pm
Location: Spring, Texas

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by bitninja » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:48 pm

Picasso wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm
Have you ever tried to build micropython on windows? Impossible.
I find this funny because I do it all the time. No not natively, but with a VM running the perfect environment for building my firmware.

Picasso
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by Picasso » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:06 pm

bitninja wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:48 pm
I find this funny ...
Nice ... not long ago someone mentioned 'having fun' as a good reason to use MicroPython. And see, here you have it.

bitninja
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:09 pm
Location: Spring, Texas

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by bitninja » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:01 am

Actually, I DO have tons of fun working with MicroPython...however you would classify me.

Picasso
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by Picasso » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:20 am

bitninja wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:01 am
...however you would classify me.
Agree, classifying with bad intentions can be a bad idea. Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

stijn
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:13 am

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by stijn » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:06 am

Picasso wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:26 pm
No one recognizes the problem I thought I laid out rather clearly.
Don't know where you got that idea. At least I get what your point is (might even have literally said so earlier, don't remember), and I'm fairly sure I'm not the only one. It does seem though not many people responding here actually experience the problem you have - again, which isn't the same as not understanding it or not recognizing it - but might lead to less interest in it. However MarkB makes a good point: if you have any practical ideas for improvement why don't you lay them out, instead of drowning in self-pity ;)

Picasso
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by Picasso » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:04 am

stijn wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:06 am
Don't know where you got that idea. At least I get what your point is ...
Actually, just by reading your comments I dont think you get the point. Also, I'm not drowning in self-pitty. It's just not very efficient use of resources to swim upstream right? If only you read the forum and the github issues, you will encounter sufficient examples of people running into the same wall. Some of them have decided to continue and learn the toolchain required to build custom firmware and overcome the hurdles. These folks are probably still here. Others have seen the same issues as I have, and probably left without leaving any feedback. Hence yo don't hear them, right?

kevinkk525
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by kevinkk525 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:07 am

Picasso wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:04 am
stijn wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:06 am
Don't know where you got that idea. At least I get what your point is ...
Actually, just by reading your comments I dont think you get the point. I'm not drowning in self-pitty. It's just not very efficient use of resources to swim upstream right? If only you read the forum and the github issues, you will encounter sufficient examples of people running into the same wall. Some of them have decided to continue and learn the toolchain required to build custom firmware and overcome the hurdles. These folks are probably still here. Others have seen the same issues as I have, and probably left without leaving any feedback. Hence yo don't hear them, right?
Don't put too much weight on every word.. The point is, we are interested in your ideas of how to improve the problems you see. So please tell us.

You are right about firmware. For example, although I build my esp8266 firmware myself, I was completely unable to build the ESP32 firmware despite all documentation and gave up on that.. One does not always fit into one category but does run into some trouble even if one has some experience.

So by all means, please tell your ideas.

ThomasChr
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:50 am

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by ThomasChr » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:48 am

Could you please provide me with links to some of the Issues you mentioned?

Picasso
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:13 pm

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by Picasso » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:54 am

kevinkk525 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:07 am
So by all means, please tell your ideas.
Since you're asking ... There is no silver bullet. It will be a process. Small steps. Each step on the way will help make a difference. Here you have two starters:

* Be respectful in conversations on the forum.
Even in this thread, some comments are simply not meant to be respectful. You will want to hear more voices. A bit of bullying or belittling is an effective way to silence people.

* Common goal
IMHO, MicroPython is an absolute remarkable gamechanger in the microcontroller area. The combination of the concept, the software, the hardware, the community ... it is truly unique! Furthermore, the promise MicroPython holds is amazing. And it should be valued as such. I think Damien has done an incredible job sofar, he deserves the credits for it. Besides the initiative, the first kickstarters, the advocating, etc.. another achievement of him has been that he has been able to actually build a community that has attracted so many talented people who have been (and still are) actually contributing and are having fun with this platform.

Unfortunately for all, the community is suffering somewhat. There seems to be a lack of common understanding on topics as: what is the target audience, what are the target platforms, what types of applications should be targeted, who is the copyright owner, which github organisation is the actual home of MicroPython ... As a result, these issues resonate in conversations, up to the point that people actually feel the need to take sides. This is not good for anything / anyone.

So here are my first 2 cents ... work on that.

kevinkk525
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Target audience for MicroPython?

Post by kevinkk525 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:28 pm

I completely agree on #1 but this is just unavoidable. There will always be people with less social skills, bad attitude a bad day or similar. All we can do is opposing those with being friendly and helpful.

#Common goal: I agree that Micropython and Damien achieved something big. However I do not think we need a "common goal" with particular target platforms and people. Micropython can be used widely and that's good because everyone can find a usage for it.
However Damien does do some prioritizing as can be seen with the pyboard. The copyright is pretty clear by the way, I don't see a problem there.
There is indeed the problem of github organisation. It mainly derived from pfalcon having to leave the project and therefore there's a split in micropython and micropython-lib. I hope Damien will have a solution for the micropythonlib/upip problem soon.. But yeah, the whole forking thing may seem a little confusing but there's nothing you can do about it and it's just how open-source works. Therefore it's not worth talking about it (except for the problems with micropython-lib/upip which affects everyone).
If there are no discussions, nobody can pick sides. Therefore I just ignore some comments that would result in picking sides and just accept and respect the work everyone is doing in his own fork. It's good that they put effort in it and hopefully contribute back (although mainline is slow processing these).
So here are my first 2 cents ... work on that.
That sounds a bit rude IMHO, you started this thread to make aware of problems and share your opinion on how to improve the situation so plese just do that.

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