Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

General discussions and questions abound development of code with MicroPython that is not hardware specific.
Target audience: MicroPython Users.
smithclarkson01
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Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by smithclarkson01 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:29 am

This topic might be a bit off-topic here, but the micropython-themed subs are dead. Has the project failed or something? Has the hardware side been abandoned by the official micropython team? The pyboard is permanently "out of stock".

Is there a new reference board? Something I can buy to play around with no real goal in mind?
Last edited by smithclarkson01 on Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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pythoncoder
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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by pythoncoder » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:35 am

I don't know where you're getting this idea. The original Pyboard is in stock https://store.micropython.org/product/PYBv1.1 as is the Pyboard D https://store.micropython.org/product/PYBD-SF2-W4F2. The project is highly active.
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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by stijn » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:42 am

smithclarkson01 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:29 am
the micropython-themed subs are dead. Has the project failed or something?
The state of a forum isn't a good measure of project activity. Github is much better for that, and shows continuous work on the code: https://github.com/micropython/micropyt ... its/master
(that doesn't always reflect the state of hardware though)

kevinkk525
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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by kevinkk525 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:30 am

But even the forum is far from dead..
Many questions and projects in various hardware sections.

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jimmo
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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by jimmo » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:34 am

smithclarkson01 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:29 am
This topic might be a bit off-topic here, but the micropython-themed subs are dead. Has the project failed or something? Has the hardware side been abandoned by the official micropython team? The pyboard is permanently "out of stock".
As others have already said -- not at all. There's lots happening in the MicroPython world, and the new PYBD series was only released a few months ago. Further tiles and boards are currently in development.

Like Peter said, I'd be curious to see where you're getting this impression from and if there's anything the MicroPython can do to make this more obvious. Where did you see the pyboard out of stock?

Also, what's a "micropython-themed sub" ?
smithclarkson01 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:29 am
Is there a new reference board? Something I can buy to play around with no real goal in mind?
I know you said "no real goal in mind" but depending on the features you want, you can do a lot with a Pyboard 1.1. If you want WiFi (and, soon, BLE), then PYBD is a great option.

In terms of feature support and attention from the developers, the pyboards still really do count as the "reference" boards. But the ESP32-based boards are also very popular.

smithclarkson01
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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by smithclarkson01 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:22 am

Thanks for the response everyone !!

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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by jimmo » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:35 am

smithclarkson01 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:22 am
Thanks for the response everyone !!
Can you answer any of our questions? It's important that we fix things that are dissuading new users from getting into MicroPython.

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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by pmp-p » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:15 am

jimmo wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:35 am
It's important that we fix things that are dissuading new users from getting into MicroPython.
getting or staying.

but anyway i'm really asking myself *who* could fix anything anyway.

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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by jimmo » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:38 am

pmp-p wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:15 am
but anyway i'm really asking myself *who* could fix anything anyway.
I'd be interested if you could elaborate. What do you see as the barriers to fixing things? How would you address them?

(Assuming by the username that you're the same pmp-p on GitHub)

You've chosen a particularly difficult part of MicroPython -- the emscripten port is complicated because it's a long way from MicroPython's initial intended use case, it is not (yet) widely used, and is currently limited due to a couple of in-progress but extremely complicated architectural improvements (removal of nlr, etc).

That said, I think this port has a huge potential to unlock a whole new area of utility for MicroPython so it's really great that people like yourself are working on it. If I had more time, I'd love to work on this too.

None of these things have easy answers. It'd be great if all bugs or Python incompatibilities could be fixed with no extra overhead (program size or runtime cost). Sometimes they can... but it takes a lot of work.

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Re: Does anybody know what is going on with micropython?

Post by pmp-p » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:19 am

jimmo wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:38 am
You've chosen a particularly difficult part of MicroPython -- the emscripten port is complicated
First the fact that running the VM can run without any "referenced" board - pricey or not - in multiple ways should open eyes to some about the fact they are missing a train.

But i did not choose anything, i don't even use javascript port or android ports though i honestly tried to promote them.
i only use my own wasm build to pop out I/O flaws because it's a tough platform but very fast build in order to backport solutions to cpython. The sad truth is there's no way to build something realistic with micropython on *any* platform for several reasons.

#VM:

- string interning is actually bad.

- lack of finalizers that's even worse.

- random disregard of some basic Python functions, ok it is called "The MicroPython Language" it's not "a" Python flavour but who need another crippled spinoff with no stdlib ?

- the lack of documented code for building user modules ( objects AND classes ) alongside with the strain imposed on user C code ( forced removal of the use of #warning, unfriendly compiler/preprocessor flags mixup).

- no developper global switch to show TODO as warnings ( i'm ok to try to fix things when i can see them in the config used for current target i'm in no mood losing time on rgrep+volatile triaging ).

- no proper options for embedding as a library ( not even an option to create a single C file for any given port as a workaround).

- no easy to use protected panic handler.

- MicroPython dependency on C stack.

- the github requests/issues swarm is a mess, unless someone start triaging instead of stalling i see no future there.

#politics:

- frivolity and features frenzy eating time that could have been spent fixing above points to let MicroPython out of the toybox. Pushing away people for reasons unrelated to code who can *do* or could have done that in a jiffy.

- lack of an universally qualified reviewer, since obviously absolutely everything must pass by one way narrow passage approval on any subject ( that is intentionally sarcastic as a reaction to #5111 ).

#Every day use on major platforms:

unix: EINTR auto-retry is not handled on unix port ( cpython does -> script compatibility ).

esp8266: firmware must give MicroPython time not the other way around -> network problems (c-stack less /pre-emption required).

i did not put links but i think all points above are already referenced and some for a quite long time now. i'm sure more can be added so i guess it's not just "who" but:

"how many who and where".


PS: What has the removal of nlr has to do with emscripten ? could you elaborate here https://github.com/micropython/micropython/issues/4993?

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